Dan Heath 

SO, WHAT STORY ARE YOU TELLING?

When most people think of financial advisors, they think of a used car salesperson. Of course, that is a story. Unfortunately, it’s also a “sticky” story, as Dan Heath, author of the best-selling book Made to Stick, likes to call pesky ideas that we can’t seem to shake, even if they’re not true.

According to Dan, the only way to combat a sticky idea is to create a new sticky idea. As Real Financial Professionals, that means we need to be telling a new, compelling story. But how do we do that? 

I sat down with Dan to discuss how we can re-craft the narrative of what it means to be a Real Financial Professional… for our clients and ourselves. Part of what makes Dan so interesting to talk to is the way he uses stories to illustrate ideas. So give this a listen!

And while you’re following along, check out the show notes I put together to guide you through our conversation. You can use them to jump around to the highlights that interest you, or—for those of you who have been through The Fellowship—you can use them to cross-reference the corresponding Declarations you learned. 

For those of you who haven’t joined The Society of Advice… consider this conversation with Dan a window into what that experience is like!

So, what are you waiting for?

SHOW NOTES

0:00 – 4:05 Carl and Dan revisit a story Dan wrote that almost made Carl puke. (No, not going to tell you more… you have to listen!)

4:10 – 7:30 The world is full of false narratives. As advisors, one that we experience often is “market down = pain.” But is that really how it has to be?

“One of the things that we often got asked when the book came out was ‘well, how do you unstick a [bad] idea?’ And the sad answer, at least as far as we’ve been able to tell, is you don’t. The reason that ideas stick is because they’re memorable. The only thing you can really do is try to stick another idea that combats the first one.”

8:05 – 10:45 When somebody is making an irrational decision, telling them the facts rarely helps. What might help is the idea of “tripping over the truth,” which Dan explains with a doctor, a 401k match, and a bag of cash.

10:45 – 11:30 Carl shares a short but powerful story from Ron Lieber’s book, The Opposite of Spoiled.

11:30 – 13:15 Dan gives away a major spoiler for his book, The Power of Moments, by telling us how we can craft “Moments of Insight.”

“What I would have you notice is a lot of insight moments in our lives come unprompted. You know, it’s like you’re sitting at your desk and bored to tears, and you suddenly realize, ‘I can’t abide this job any longer…’ The vision of Tripping Over The Truth is, can we be in control of moments of insight?”

13:35 – 17:18 How can we get people to take the risk of doing something different to create moments of insight? Dan gives one possible answer that starts with a chemistry professor, pedagogy, and backward-centered design.

18:00 – 21:43 Carl and Dan dig into the idea of “interpersonal alchemy,” and how advisors can harness it to improve their relationships with clients.

“Isn’t that exactly what an advising relationship is about? To understand your clients, how they see themselves, what they want; and to validate that those things are important and that you’re willing to take on their goals as yours and to care for them enough that you can do work on their behalf, and occasionally push back when you think they’re violating their own standards? Can’t we say that great advising boils down to turn-taking and responsiveness?”

22:00 – 23:30 Let’s talk about smugness, empathy, and Dr. Spock… That’s right—Spock.

23:40 – 26:00 The question is not, “What is the right thing to do?” It’s, “How do I get the right thing done?” The answer to that question may just be to preload the answers to the difficult conversations we are bound, as financial advisors, to have.

27:30 – 30:30 Dan tells us what he would love—knowing what he knows about our industry, but also all that he knows about being human and trying to make decisions in an incredibly uncertain world—to see us doing as Real Financial Professionals.

“Think about the moment when somebody finally pays off a mortgage… that should be a moment when the branch manager comes out and hands you the deed to your home… not only do we not handle that moment that way, we actually charge people a deed transfer fee. To me, that’s the perfect metaphor for how the business imperative and all that goes with it, and profit maximization, and customer lifetime value—when you put on all those hats simultaneously, it starts to look smart and rational to think in terms of a deed transfer fee. But when you think from the perspective of a human being, and you think from the perspective of the moments you want your client looking back on when they review their time with you, as well as the moments you want to reflect on when thinking about your own business, it’s very easy to see that there are moments that need to be handled differently.” 

That’s it, folks. Thanks for listening!

I hope you found this as valuable as I did. 

If you enjoyed this conversation, I know for a fact that you would LOVE The Society of Advice. Much of what Dan and I talked about hinges on concepts we visit regularly on the inside.

If you're curious about the Declarations highlighted above, request your invitation to The Society today!